In defense of the electronic parking brake

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake) 10/14/2013 at 12:29 • Filed to: None

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Today's QOTD poses an interesting question: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

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Many people have listed the electronic parking brake, attacking it for being something for lazy people. I mean come on, can't you pull a lever?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say for cars that have an electronic parking brake, it's a way better solution. First and foremost, and undoubtedly the reason why manufacturers have started using them, an electronic parking brake takes up a heck of a lot less space than a brake handle. This means more room for other things, like MMI buttons in the Audi shown here, or a wider center console, or bigger cupholders, etc. I know that I'd like the parking brake to take up less space in my car, wouldn't you?

There's also space related inclinations for parts you don't see: no cables running to the parking brake, no mechanism under the car connecting your brake handle to the brakes. All this frees up space for the manufacturer to do other things which is never a bad situation.

Finally, there's a great potential for safety here. A manual parking brake relies on a user deciding to apply the parking brake. Now, I know what you're going to say: if you're too stupid to set the parking brake, you shouldn't be driving. While this may be true, it's never going to happen. Idiots drive cars, fact. So having a system that could automatically set the parking brake and keep a car from rolling down a hill into you or your car because someone was too dumb to set the parking brake would be quite beneficial.

So yes, on the face of it the electronic parking brake is useless. But give it a chance, it's really not a bad idea.

CKeffer > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 12:35

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But what happens when the batt dies and you need a jump? Does it automatically disengage when the batt dies? Is there a manual release for the brake somewhere? My issue with this is the same as my issue with drive by wire steering, what happens in the event of your car losing power? Now, if there is a backup that will allow me to safely move the car in that instance, we're golden, but if it means that it's now stuck in whatever position it was in....well we've got a problem.

webmonkees > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 12:38

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With electronic control you could in theory make a EB with pulse-width modulation. problem is that a traditonal EB lever would be the best interface for it.

Jayhawk Jake > CKeffer 10/14/2013 at 12:43

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Surely there's a manual release. Even wireless keys have a backup in the form of a mechanical key inside of the key fob.

But why should it matter? Your car won't suddenly lose power and engage the parking brake while you're driving, and if you need a jump once you get that jump you're good to go, you can turn off the brake.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 12:53

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Oh, it's a parking brake now and not an emergency brake?

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 12:59

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Electronic parking brakes still aren't setting themselves.

And yes, it's a perfectly fine execution for non-enthusiast vehicles, except for the fact that they don't work very well. Yes, they work well as parking brakes, but have you tried to set an electronic parking brake? Ever single one that I've tried to use has been a pain in the ass to set/release. It gets hung up, it's tough to tell when it's set/not (don't let the light fool you).

It's also removes what is a nice safety feature: the hand brake/parking brake isn't also known as an "emergency" brake for no reason. But you can't engage an electronic parking brake while the vehicle is in motion. It may sound stupid, but I've even encountered a situation where my feet slipped off the pedals and I would have hit the car in front of me had I not been able to apply my parking brake. Unintended acceleration and the sort come to mind as well.

Call me a Luddite, but it's just another example of something cable-actuated (yes, cables can break) being replaced by something electronically actuated. You're trading one set of issues for another, but personally, I prefer the cable-actuated components because you can quickly tell whether they're going to work or not, they rarely actually break, and they don't promote a false sense of security.

doodon2whls > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:03

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Electronic park brakes might be a better manufacturing/cost/packaging solution, but it's tough to execute a handbrake turn with them. Therefore: FAIL.

;-)

CKeffer > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:15

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I was more thinking about when it happens and the car is in the garage, or similar location making it difficult or impossible to jump the car. If there is a manual release for said situation, as I said, it's all good. I would imagine there is, but I haven't heard about or seen mention of one.

Jayhawk Jake > doodon2whls 10/14/2013 at 13:17

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Except in the cars that these come in you won't be doing a handbrake turn.

Jayhawk Jake > CKeffer 10/14/2013 at 13:18

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There is, I found a lengthy video of a Range Rover displaying it. You had to take the console cover off, which sucks, but it's there.

Jayhawk Jake > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2013 at 13:20

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Yes. Have you driven an automatic car these days? Brake pedals are HUGE, you don't need an emergency brake. If you're brakes fail, you're pretty much screwed anyways.

TheOnelectronic > CKeffer 10/14/2013 at 13:23

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There is a manual release, yes.

TheOnelectronic > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:25

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I wouldn't assume that.

It's one of the few gripes I have with the S4: That EPB means you can't crack the handbrake to spin about. Coupled with the anti-old-people brake/throttle lockout that prevents left foot braking, it's a tough car to rotate.

deekster_caddy > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:25

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Except in a manual transmission car, where a handbrake is useful. Of course, they have 'auto hold' to go along with it, but I find the auto-hold to be more like auto-stall on steep hills unless you rev the crap out of it and slip the clutch until the damn thing releases. I taught my wife how to get by without auto hold.

doodon2whls > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:27

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I reserve the right to attempt a handbrake turn in any vehicle. ;-)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/14/2013 at 13:27

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Could you say exactly this to this guy

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TheOnelectronic > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/14/2013 at 13:28

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>Hard to use

Not in my experience. Push the button, receive brake.

>Safety

How many people have actually had their brakes fail on a new car in the past couple of years? I honestly don't know, maybe it's more prevalent than I think, but "emergency brake" is largely a holdover from the days where cars needed redundant systems.

Secondly, you CAN engage them while moving. My car hesitates a bit in case you accidentally bumped it, but keep the switch pulled and it will eventually lock up.

TheOnelectronic > webmonkees 10/14/2013 at 13:29

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I don't think so. The way the actuator is designed is pretty much on or off. It couldn't respond rapidly to inputs.

CKeffer > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:31

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In that case, I could care less in pretty much any car if it has a manual parking brake or not.

deekster_caddy > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/14/2013 at 13:32

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My wife's Passat Wagon has an electronic e-brake, manual transmission and auto-hold feature. I find the auto-hold so annoying it's useless (you would only use it on a steep hill where it doesn't release fast enough to be useful), however the Parking part of it works really well. Push the button, it locks, you hear it engage (whiirrrrummp), and that's that. When you drive away, if your seat belt is buckled you just step on the gas and release the clutch and it disengages automatically. Since it's a manual, you get in the habit of setting it every time you park, just like you would a handbrake.

You can, of course, release it manually by stepping on the brake pedal and pushing the same button you pushed to set it with. The VW will also tell you on the display to step on the brake while pushing the button to release the Pbrake if you try to release it the wrong way.

On the other hand, my Chevy Volt also has an electronic parking brake, which I set anytime I park on a slope. It has a push/pull lever in the dash, and it is not at all easy to understand if you've never used it before. It's hard to see, it's not clear how to use. I recently loaned my car to someone who had used it several times before, but didn't know the parking brake. Usually not an issue, but this time I had parked on a hill and had the brake set before I handed them the keys. After 5 minutes or so they finally called me and I explained the brake to them.

It's all about the implementation. Yes, they can be done right, but they are usually done cheap instead.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jayhawk Jake 10/14/2013 at 13:35

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I do everything in my power to not drive automatics.

webmonkees > TheOnelectronic 10/14/2013 at 18:15

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Yeah, it was a crazy idea anyway. If I was really doing this,there would be a different actuator anyway. something lightning fast. for bootleg turns.

ZimFreak > Jayhawk Jake 10/19/2013 at 12:48

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I had an experience just yesterday that completely soured electronic parking brakes in my mind.

I was driving my 03 Elantra (Don't judge, i got it for free) when the brake pedal started feeling spongy. After a minute, the brake pedal was almost useless, and went straight to the floor. Luckily, I was able to limp it into the shop using just careful planning and using the hand brake when I needed to stop. If I had a newer car, I would've been forced to stop and call a tow truck in a less than ideal neighborhood.

burnaccount > Jayhawk Jake 03/10/2014 at 10:06

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I recently TRIED to replace the rear brake pads on my girlfriends 2010 VW Tiguan, which is equipped with electric parking brakes (rear only). I found out you need a software program to plug into the diagnostics port to release the pressure applied by the electric safety brakes. Without using your computer, you can't replace the pads. Cheapest software kit is $350 (VCDS). Other option is to bring it into a service shop, which really pisses me off since I've never had to bring in my cars for simple brake pad replacement. I will never purchase a car with electric safety brakes. It's going down a road where we are giving up self-service abilities.

Lotus esprit > burnaccount 04/24/2014 at 13:47

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you can use a 12 battery and a couple of jumper wires to recess the motor. then reverse the jumpers to reset the motor when the new pads are on

crack smoker > Jayhawk Jake 07/28/2014 at 12:12

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Cable and lever provides a mechanical redundancy over the most critical control aspect (braking) completely separate from any other mechanical, hydraulic or electrical system in the car. It gives the driver continuously variable pressure in an emergency. I have had a car where the master cylinder suddenly failed completely (brake juice geyser), and I used the e brake to slow and stop the car. With an electronic system it would be either no brake (computer won't arm brake above certain speed), lock up, maximum force with ABS (which would have to be a completely separate ABS system with powerful enough motors to articulate), or something in between. No matter what, it's not up to the driver how much force to apply—the car is going to decide that for you one way or another. Furthermore, a driver can't be confident in it. With a traditional cable system, a driver knows that when they yank on the lever they are going to get brake engagement no matter what the situation. With an electronic system there is always going to be some doubt...will it work at 50mph? Will it be enough to hold the car on the super steep hill? How much will it cost to repair? FINALLY: you can't drift tah damn car. Lame.

bob and john > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/15/2014 at 06:22

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even some manuals have these things now. (audi S4 comes to mind)

thebigbossyboss > Jayhawk Jake 11/16/2014 at 12:08

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My beef is how can you tell when it is too stretched and or snapped. With a lever that's easy, there is resistance, but with a button...well I'm not sure how you can tell. Until your car runs into the nearest lamp post.

thebigbossyboss > TheOnelectronic 11/16/2014 at 12:11

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My buddy had his engine seize while going down a notorious hill on the Coquihalla. BC highway 5. No engine = no power brakes.

TheOnelectronic > thebigbossyboss 11/16/2014 at 17:36

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You've still got brakes, you just have to get violent with them.

Tohru > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 11/16/2014 at 18:10

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I had to nurse a Ford Bronco 20 miles home with no brakes at all except a foot-actuated emergency brake. That'll make a man outta you right there - one hand on the wheel, one hand on the brake release, left foot on the e-brake, right on the clutch. By the time I got home I had sweated through my shirt.

bbeiers > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/07/2015 at 16:21

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Exactly!!! Anyone who claims you “can’t lose power” is a fool, hasn’t driven long, or works someplace that sells or manufacturers/sells the equipment.

bbeiers > Jayhawk Jake 08/07/2015 at 16:22

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Buddy....you’re out of touch with reality.